AI Property Tax Protest: How Texans Can Fight the Appraisal District

Got a commercial property out in Midland, Texas.The gentleman has a.Like, a little storage unit.I saved him $30,000 this year, and he's owned it for 17 years, and he's never argued the value of his property taxes.And he literally asked me, mike, what do you think you can save me next year?I go, probably $30,000.And he's like, why?Because it's going to start over.It's going to do the same thing every year, like Groundhog Day.And he goes, what could you have saved me three years ago?I go, probably $30,000.And he did the math.It was a half a million dollars over 17 years.And he goes, I'm sick to my stomach.And I go, it's not your fault.It's the fact that it's.It's been hard.It's.It's tough to do.Like you just said, it comes once a year.You get mad, and then all of a sudden you think that you're just stuck with it.But what I'm trying to get folks to do is concentrate on this, like, their federal income taxes.

Thing runs a little long.

Hold on.

There we go.All right.Sorry.I was trying a new feature on my.On my little.A little program here and did okay.But I. I like.Well, the intro's kind of always been there, but it's been one of those things where I was playing it internally anyway.This is all technical stuff nobody cares about, so.Hello, everybody.My name is Mike Mills, and welcome to the Real Texas Real Estate and Finance Podcast.So every spring, every homeowner in Texas opens the same kind of envelope.The appraisal district says that your house is worth more than it was last year.And a lot of people are just going to pay it.They don't really argue it.They don't really protest it.They just pay it, or you.They do protest it, then they try to do it all on their own and have to deal with all kinds of hassles because.Which is pretty crazy, because in Texas, this is actually one of the few places that you're allowed to push back on your taxes.You can actually call the county up and say, hey, you got the wrong number.But a lot of people just don't know about it, or they don't have the time, or they don't feel like fighting city hall, because that's kind of what you're doing.So today's guest built what.What he know, what I would say might be the one of the most Texas uses of AI that we've ever seen.So Michael Reeves is the founder and CEO of the Andy app from right here in McKin, Texas.It lets homeowners protest their property taxes right from their phone.And AI is going to build the case for you.And he just won the North Texas Startups demo day, and they picked up McKinney's Innovation Technology Award, and he wrote a book called Taxed by the Algorithm.So he has thought about this subject just a little bit.So, Michael, how we doing today, man?

Yeah, man.Thanks, Mike, for a great introduction.I appreciate that because you hit that right on the head.So I appreciate you letting us come on the show and talk about what we built and how we can help Texas homeowners, what we think is.Is a massive problem in our state.

Well, perfect.I do.Before we dive into, like, your backstory and what you.How you got to this place, because that's always interesting for people, but let's just go right out of the gate so everybody knows what does this app do for them?And, you know, kind of what's, what's the, what's.What's the functionality of it?Exactly.

Yeah.I think, again, it's going to educate the public on one of the worst problems we have in the state of Texas, which is property taxes.And so now through the Andy app and through a click of a button, we're the first and only on the Google Apple Play Store.So that's a cool, you know, you know, feather in our cap that again, we're the only ones on that, so it gives us a tremendous amount of credibility.But we're going to run comps immediately in the app, so the client's able to put in their address.We automatically run comms.We built a very sophisticated comp software within the app, but we do a lot deeper dive than just play the comp game, which is what majority of my competitors do, is they don't really leverage technology except for with comps.Right.So ultimately, in the app, you're going to be able to walk around your property and take pictures of imperfections of the property, imperfections in the neighborhood.Anything that you think that will lower the value of your property taxes for tax purposes only.And, you know, we think about how the county is actually assessing it.They're.They're looking at your properties as if you're selling it.Well, those pictures can be uploaded to the app to prove to the county that you're not selling it.Right.I've got four kids and two dogs, and I got holes in my walls from my son riding his bike into It.I've got just.Just massive cosmetic issues that, you know, seem to be, you know, can be easily fixed.But if a realtor walked my house right now and said, hey, Mike, you know, let's sell your property, they're turning around and walking right out.Because they're not.So, again, why am I being compared with the folks down the street that are selling?They painted the walls, you know, they fixed all the cracks.They baked cookies.So when people walk through, it smelled good.Right.So again, our app gives people the ability now to protest their property taxes on a yearly basis to a click of a button.You know, much like you do Doordash, much like you do Instacart, much like you watch Netflix, you know, why can't you appeal your property taxes to an app on your phone?Well, now you can.

Yeah.It was funny when we first chatted about this, I thought it was interesting because it does take a new angle on, you know, all the images and pictures and things.And it's like, this is the first time in the history of being a homeowner that you actually want to make your house look worse.You know, like, that's.The general idea is like, how can I make this place look like complete garbage?That's what I'm really trying to pull off here.

And it empowers you.Right?We had a lady this year produce 91 pictures.

Yeah.

Thank goodness.We saved her.I did a case study on her.We saved her a tremendous amount of money.It was like three or $4,000 because we empowered the citizen now to go and take pictures.And then again, it's funny, I read an article, the Austin American Statesman, the chief strategy officer for Travis county came out and said, we don't know what your property is worth.You have to tell us.You have to help us.Right.And so we can't physically drive to every single house and see what it looks like.So we're pulling comps in the neighborhood, but, okay, great, use the comps.But now let.Our technology allows the homeowner to do a deeper dive into their property to go.My house is not ready to sell.You know, even neighborhood conditions.I had a gentleman.One of our clients took a picture of a half pipe.His neighbor built a half pipe for a skating ramp in his front yard.For his kids, obviously.Yeah.Awesome.Cool, right?For the kid, but not for the elderly couple or the.The.The.You know, the couple next door that's going, wait a second.This doesn't make any sense.So they're able to take a picture of that.Upload it to the.To the app and go, nope, that devalues my property because of the skating ramp in the front yard.

Yeah, well, I mean, that sucks for them if they ever want to sell, but that's an awesome little treat to have the neighborhood, I guess.

Yeah.Right.For the kids.Right.Until somebody breaks an arm.

Right, right, right.Well, you know, you know, for years, because I, I, you know, when I first bought my house, I didn't know a whole lot about the property tax protests.You know, I wasn't in this industry at the time.And then after I'd lived here for a little while, you know, you.You realize what people like.You talk to your neighbors like, oh, I'm protesting my taxes.And you're like, okay.And I'm like, how does that work?And like, oh, well, you got to go to the county office, and you got to get your comps.And I had to call my realtor and I had to pull this, you know, particular build, and they had more questions for me, and they'll tell me about this entire process, and they'll get to the end of it, and they'll say, oh, and.Yeah, and I didn't, you know, they ch.They changed it by $2,000.And I'm like, wait a minute.What.What.What was the point?So you spent hours doing this, and it didn't even work.And they're like, yeah, but in my head, I'm like, why are people that get their property taxes protested all the time?And then what I found out was that there are, you know, people that you can pay, and they will do it for you, essentially, and they'll charge you either a percentage or you pay them a flat fee.And what I found in talking to some of these guys over the years is most of them used to work for the tax office.So it's kind of a thing where they know how the system works, they know what's involved with it.And now you are paying them, and it wasn't cheap, but to some extent it was worth it.But now you are paying them in order for them to.To protest your taxes and save you a little bit of money.And you're.And you know, you're paying them a decent amount.So.So then it's like, okay, well, now I've kind of held over a barrel, but this guy will get it done and get my taxes lower.So it's better than not, because in the long term, it's going to help me.But then you got to do it every year.But there's never really been a tool that you could skip all that, still get all of the data that you can do.Probably pay quite a bit less for it than you would to the guy that was going out there.He really wasn't doing a whole lot of work.He was just.He knew Nancy at the front desk.They've been friends for 20 years.They were hanging out, talking.He's like, hey, I got five more, Nancy.

And then she's like, all right, got you, Bill.

You know, and like, that was kind of the deal.And.And you just hope that it works out.But.But now you actually have a real tool that can use real data and give you real information to be able to fight that and probably at a lower cost than you would, you know, paying Billy down the street a grand to knock it out for the year.

Well, and then faster also.Right.So, I mean, going down to do it yourself is like jury duty.No, thanks, I'm out, right?

Yes.

You try to get out of that as much as you possibly can and then hiring a human being to do it.As far as another tax consultant, you know, Mary's going to retire at some point, so the savings is going to diminish.And then again, how are you being communicated with?How do you even know what you know?Billy, the tax consultant actually even did.He just got it because him and Nancy are rubbing elbows down there at the county.But what artificial intelligence is going to do, it's going to do it quicker.The application is going to keep you communicated with and up to date on what's going on.It's going to educate you, which is what the problem is.To begin with, the citizen of the state of Texas has no clue even when the deadlines are how to read an assessment.And then AI is going to share the facts.So there's no longer a let's the good old boy system in Texas anymore where.No, no, I'm going to pull the facts on what's actually going on with this property.I've got a guy right now we're represented that he's got mold in his house.Right.It's.It's down to the studs.Guess what?The county assessed it at full market value.Like, wait a second.So this gentleman is supposed to get all this evidence together in paper form and go down there and do it?Or he gets in paper form, he hires a tax consultant and sends them in paper form.Now all he's got to do is use his cell phone to take pictures of his house.That's literally on sticks uploaded to the app.Artificial intelligence will pull Texas tax law while it's negotiating as well as all your evidence and create a fair market value, a fair taxable value.I should say, excuse me, for your property, because again, we all want to pay tax, but we just.It wants to be fair, right?

Yeah, yeah, that's.That's the, the everything is always a barrier to entry on how hard it's going to be to do it.And, and that's there.And there's a lot of industries taxing being one of them that is built off of that idea, which is, yeah, you can, you know, file your taxes and get all these deductions, but it's very complicated.And you're going to have to hire a CPA and, or you can, yes, you can protest your, your property taxes, but you're going to have to fill out all these forms, take all these images, not really know what the rules of it exactly are and how much we'll actually give you.And then you're going to have to show up and you still may lose that battle.And so people just.I don't want to do it.I'm not going to mess with it.Like, just, just keep taking my money, I guess, without me fighting against it.And I think that where, where AI is really going to help a lot of people in a lot of different areas is kind of bridging that gap between what people used to be able to not or used to not be able to do to what they can do now with just a little bit of a.With just a little bit of knowledge of use of a tool that can really kind of take it to the next level.And, and that.That's what's great about all this technology is being built, including Yalls app, and.

Doing it every year.That's the other point I love when I ask people, I go, h. They're like, oh, I protest my property taxes.I go, you do it every year?Well, no, I. I did in 23rd, 2020, 23.I'm like, well, well, no, no.In Texas you got to do it every year.So now we put it on clockwork so the client knows every year they're getting their property taxes appealed with the Andy app.They.It's just on.It's like their next Netflix subscription.It just goes right, right.And then every single year, we're going to let them know what's going on, we're going to educate them, and slowly but surely, like we talked a little bit earlier, that the citizen of Texas is going to get so educated that instead of 5% of the population religiously doing it every single year, it's going to be 95% of the population.And that's what it should be.

Now, does the app currently.I know, you know, how long ago did you guys actually launch it?Was it.Has it been a year or two now or.

Yeah, so a year.So we've completed our first year in 2026.Obviously, I've been in this industry since 2020.2014.2015, But this was the first year that we used.We're about 60 to 70% AI with the app, the rest human beings.This year, we think we're going to go into the 90% artificial intelligence, 10% human beings, because AI you still to this day.And I don't want to scare people to think that, oh, robots are doing my property taxes.No, well, 90% of it.But there is a human element that still is checking, still making sure.We have certified property tax consultants that, that we have internally that are going to.That look at the results and just to make sure.Putting a human eye on it.But again, it's quick, it's fast, and, and it can get savings.

I do want to get to your background a little bit and then we'll talk a little bit more about the AI piece of this.But before that, I.So on the app itself right now, are there functions where, for example, it can look and see what kind of exemptions you have filed and what's available to you, and if you haven't filed them, does it give you any kind of reminders?Because, you know, in, in Texas, you know, if someone has been living in their house for five years and they download the app and then they realize they don't have their homestead filed and they're like, oh, darn, I've lost all this money.But in Texas, I think it's.Is it seven years that you can recover your exemptions if you don't claim them?

Yeah.So it's two on a homestead in Texas and an over 65 exemption.So, yeah, our app runs artificial intelligence.And this, you know, going into that pretty quickly is AI is going to do that check for you.Right.So right now we're working a deal with a fairly large title company per se, where we're trying to get at the closing table, because what's happening is, is about 2 out of every 10 Texans don't have an over 65 or homestead exemption.And that seems high, but it's, it's because of how many people are moving to Our state.And at closing, there's a kind of an argument between the realtor and the loan officer and the title company who's supposed to get this person to do their homestead.So they're handing them the homestead, which is a piece of paper, and then telling them to go put a stamp on it or drop it off at the county.I don't know about you, Mike, but I can't remember the last time I put a stamp on anything.Right.And so, so again, they're not doing it.So when you're telling the client that their mortgage payments 3200 bucks and they think that's for the next 30 years and then all of a sudden after year one and two, that jumps to 3600 because they didn't file their homestead and they didn't, they didn't protest.Right.So what our AI is going to do is automatically going to file homestead on the new property and it's going to go back and look at their previous property as long as they lived in Texas and get a refund on their previous property.So, yes, in the state of Texas, if you don't file a homestead exemption or over 65 exemption, you're allowed a two year refund that will go directly in.The AI in our company will do that for you and file it for you.The other thing we're working on, which is cool, is when somebody closes at the table, we're working on also filing their address change form to dps.

Yeah, I was wondering if it sounds like right now you can literally sit at the closing table and get all of your kind of tax stuff worked out before you even get everything worked out.

That's great.Before you paint a wall in the new property, we're getting that knocked out.So the other thing in Texas you can actually go back five years, which is part of the statute you read, Mike, where it's called a 25, 25C, we can actually go back and look at potential refunds.So, for instance, we have a client right now that matter of fact, we talked about her this morning on our conference call.She lives on two acres and she's been taxed for three the last seven years.So she lives on two, but the county's been taxing her on three.We also had a gentleman two years ago, which the AI didn't catch, but it was a framework for us to build the AI off of.He built a pergola, a front porch.The county was taxing it as livable space.It's a front porch.And there's no ac.It's.Nobody can live there.I guess if you're homeless, you could pull up a tent under it.But again, that was a $12,000 refund.And had he not contracted with us and.Or this lady this year downloaded the app, the AI caught it, she would have gotten a refund.And how long would she have been paying on three acres of property taxes instead of two?And that's going to generate a massive refund for.

Yeah, yeah.I mean, it's no different than, you know what, you know, everybody.There's all kinds of apps online where you can see.It's like, hey, we'll.We'll search all your.All your subscription accounts and let you know which ones you're paying too much for and which ones have been running that you lost track of or whatever.Like, that.That stuff people understand.But it's.It's like, no, no, this is what you can do for your taxes.Also, it's the same like, because what have you been paying reoccurring monthly that you shouldn't be paying or.Or annually or whatever.But have you been paying reoccurring that you shouldn't be paying?How do we fix it?How do we minimize it?And it's boring, so nobody cares.So they don't want to.They just pay it instead of looking at it.And so it's like, okay, great.So we're going to take the boring thing that you don't want to do that's still costing you money every month, and now we're going to give you a technology tool that you can use that will just handle it for you and take one more thing off your plate.So I don't.I don't know why you wouldn't want to sign up for that.

And it drives me nuts.Because we'll go to the grocery store.We're actually going to start commercials here pretty soon, which is.Are these.These little, you know, crazy things we do in our lives that we argue about, but we don't argue about our property taxes.So we'll go to the grocery store.

Are you going to dress up in the.Are you going to dress up in the armadillo?Or is that going to be.You can have AI Armadillo.

Well, it'll be like a. I mean, and Andy is.You know, we're one in the same, him and I, you know, so we'll go to the grocery store and we'll get a.You know, the milk will ring up $2 more than it should, and you stop and you Argue with the person behind the counter.No, no, no, no.That's.That should have been 5.99, not 7.99.It's like, wait a second.You want your $2?I do it.Everyone does.You go out.You go out to a restaurant, and they're like, I only ordered three drinks and you charged me for four.It's like, is it really that deep?Yeah, right.You know, somebody took a hundred bucks out of your.When my daughter takes cash out of my wallet, I go, whoa, what are you doing?But we won't argue our property tax.

No, well, but it's.I think what it is, it's a function of things that occur without you looking at it.Like, I've.And not to go down a rabbit hole, but like, I've always used student loans as an example of this, because people will talk about how, you know, we have a student loan crisis.People have too much debt, you know, and it's too expensive and all this stuff.And.And I agree with that wholeheartedly.And then they'll say, well, the kids are dumb.You know, they should know better whatnot.And I'm like, ah, kids are all.Kids are dumb.I'm still mostly dumb, and I'm a grown adult.Yeah, but.But also, too, you have a system set up where.Where money is given to them, and there's no pain for the payment that's coming out of it.So.So if you have a loan and money gets given to the loan and you don't feel the pain right then of making that payment, if it goes up 10% or if it goes up 15% the next year, you.You don't notice because you're not writing the check because the check's getting paid on your behalf.They may tell you, but you don't know.And it's only hindsight.20, 20, You know, 10 or 15 years down the road, we're like, oh, my gosh, this got so expensive so fast.And I think property taxes are kind of like that, because what happens is, is you pay your mortgage bill every month, but most people have an escrow account, and so that escrow account pays those taxes for them.And then once a year, you do get pissed off because your bill goes up, and then you're trying to figure out what's happening, and then it settles into being comfortable again.Unless you do something about it right then, you're very likely to just let it keep rolling until the next year and forget about it completely.

Yeah, and it'll make you sick.We've Got a commercial property out in Midland, Texas.The gentleman has a.Like, a little storage unit.I saved him $30,000 this year, and he's owned it for 17 years, and he's never argued the value of his property taxes.And he literally asked me, mike, what do you think you can save me next year?I go, probably $30,000.And he's like, why?Because it's going to start over.It's going to do the same thing every year, like Groundhog Day.And he goes, what could you have saved me three years ago?I go, probably $30,000.And he did the math.It was a half a million dollars over 17 years.And he goes, I'm sick to my stomach.And I go, it's not your fault.It's the fact that it's been hard.It's tough to do.Like you just said, it comes once a year, you get mad, and then all of a sudden you think that you're just stuck with it.But what I'm trying to get folks to do is concentrate on this, like their federal income taxes.You know, if you go out on a business lunch, you take a picture of the receipt, you write it off on your taxes in April, right?Well, if you have a flood in July, we want a picture of it.If you have roof damage in May, we want a picture of it.If your son kicks a hole in the wall in December, we want a picture of it, right?If your neighbor stops mowing his lawn in July, we want a picture of it.Because we're going to take all that evidence and come May 15, which is the property tax deadline, we're going to argue those pictures throughout the year.

Right?Now, this is.I don't know if this comes up, and it's.I'm sure it's not the case, so I'm sure it's not a touchy question.But obviously, in this circumstance, you're given Andy all the bad stuff about your house, right?All the things that could affect the value.Now, one day is going to come around where you're going to want to sell this house, right?At some point.So at any point does that data that you've given Andy, you know, between you and the county, is there any way that somebody buying your property would ever be able to see or have access to that at any point?

No.That's a great question, because that's some of the anxiety that people feel like, well, I don't want to devalue the market value of my house.Well, market value and assessed value, taxable value, are Two different things, right?So if you have gold plated ceiling fans in a swimming pool.Well, that's all I want.Gold plated ceiling fans in the swimming pool.So I'm going to pay market for your property.Right.And so as far as that data, that data is for tax purposes only.After that year, it's deleted because it's no longer needed.Right.And so again, remind, remember what we're arguing for, which is the taxable value of your house.You are not selling it today.You're not.Right.So what is it worth today in this moment in history with the damage and the imperfections it has right now?What is it worth when you do paint the walls, when you do fix the carpet, when you do clean it up and get it ready to sell?And it's worth a heck of a lot more because there's two separate assignments here.Right?So no, the data is used for tax purposes only.And it's a great question because again, you're not selling it right now and that data is deleted because it's used for that tax year 2026, 2027, 2028, and then it's deleted.As a matter of fact, we had a client this year that, and this is why the county's coming up with their own AI.We had a client that tried to use pictures from three years ago.The county ran its own AI on it, and guess what?It did.

Said.Nope.Throughout.

Throughout her protest.Throughout the evidence of that protest.Right.

Hey, that's actually a good, that's a good point because I mean, obviously if you guys are going to be, if, if, if any third party companies, private companies are going to be using this technology to fight taxes, well, then you would think it would just be a matter of time before the government would use the same technology to work against it at the same time.So, yeah, I mean, it kind of balances it out a little bit because you want to be able to protest your taxes and bring your value down if it's justified.But you also don't want people using pictures from before they did their $200,000 renovation and sending them to the county every year and then going, yeah, you're worth it.I mean, I would love to be able to do that or, you know,.

Or try to use their neighbors.I had a guy try to use his neighbors and I'm like, dude, they're going to run AI because if that property was ever sold in Zillow, they'll be able to figure it out.The county's not dumb and they do Want to give you a break.And a matter of fact, we're one of the only companies, we are the only company that I know will also argue sympathy savings hardships.So if you ever had something happen to you, maybe you went through a divorce, maybe you lost your job, maybe you made less money this year than last year, maybe you got cancer, anything that you deem an issue with, you affording your property taxes, you, you actually can type up a very detailed description in the Andy app about your hardship, and we can actually use that.And we've been successful going, hey, please help this person out.They're really struggling right now, and we've had the county do that.They have been very open to hearing those types of cases.So, yes, they want to help you, but they also don't want you to be shady about it.Right.Let's be on the up and up.And that's why our technology, the technology that they're ultimately going to develop, my AI eventually is going to talk to their AI, and that's what's, that's where I think we have a competitive advantage over these other companies because we've already developed the AI agents to eventually be able to talk to theirs when they develop theirs.

Yeah, I, I didn't.I had no idea that you could actually argue hardship on your taxes.Has that always been in the tax code and people just weren't necessarily aware of it or.

No, I think it's just, again, you can argue a banana peel, like, you can argue anything in front of the appraisal district.Whether they accept it is up to them.Right.So we found a pretty interesting niche a couple years ago because going into my background, I did property tax loans where people couldn't pay their property taxes.We'd loan them the money like a payday loan.And that's where it started where we heard so many stories about man, please are crying and, and it got depressing at times because you're going, oh my gosh, like, what am I doing?And so eventually we started using some of those stories and the county was very open to it.You know, that it's not saying it's going to win, but, you know, you pull at people's heartstrings and people do want to help.The county's not a bad entity.They, again, going back to the chief strategy officer, their approach is, we don't know what it's worth.We need the citizens help to help us.So.

Yeah, well.And they're just people, too.Like, they're not.They're.They're your neighbor, the person that goes to your church.Like, they're.

And you know what?They process their own taxes.

Yes.

I met with.I met with one from Collin County.I was at a town hall meeting, and she goes, I. I argue my value.I'm like, yeah.And she works at the appraisal district.

Of course.Yes.So she wins.No, I'm kidding.

Yes.Right, Right.Probably.

So.Yeah.Speaking of your background, how did you.How did you actually get into.I know you said you did, you know, property tax loans.But, like, how.How do you end up.

World.You know, it's interesting because I. I've been a serial entrepreneur my whole entire life.Cut my teeth in the merchant service payment processing business, which is virtually impossible to be a salesperson and successful at.But there was five other guys I went into business with, and I was the fifth guy in the totem pole and did that in 2007.I started in that industry in 22,002.And in 2007, we scaled the company.2014, We ended up selling it.And it's interesting because the owner of that company's name was Andy, and he taught me everything there was to know about business.

Okay.

And that's where the Andy comes from.The Andy app.

You have an homage to the.

Your buddy a little bit.Yeah.Like.Like Lynyrd Skynyrd.

Right.

The band Lynyrd Skynyrd.That was their gym coach, you know, so I don't get sued by Andy one day.It's called the Andy app.Right.So I didn't take his name.But anyway, so what ended up happening is we sold that company, and I was supposed to get a certain amount of money, ended up getting less.Learned a lot about business.And, you know, when you chase the knowledge, the paycheck comes.You take the chase, the paycheck, the paycheck never comes.Right.It's always the knowledge.And so anyway, I didn't work for about six months after we sold the company, and I put my resume out there, and all of a sudden I got hit up by a gentleman I played golf with.It was a friend of mine.He's like, mike, I didn't know you're looking for a job.I go, I didn't either.We just sold the company.And I'm kind of trying to figure out my next steps.And he's like, well, I've got a property tax business that they're trying to scale and sell.And I said, great, I'll take it.And I went in and Tax Advisors Group.They're still around today.Bill Blankenship was one of my mentors early in the tax business.And we had a plan to scale that in four years.We did it in two, and he sold it to private equity.And I thought I was going to stay there forever.And as you know, private equity changes everything.And my attitude was, well, you haven't made a cold call in your life, so why should I listen to you?I was still young and dumb.I should have probably been a little bit more easy to work with.But anyway, I've met a gentleman that did property tax loans, and he's like, mike, you need to get in the loan business.And I'm like, great, let's do it.Send me the list.And I noticed there was no phone numbers on the property tax delinquency list that you get from the county.And that was my first taste of AI.So I got on fiverr, of all places, and created a friendship with a guy named Adil in Pakistan.And sure enough, he still works for me to this day.And I started skip tracing, you know, basically names and phone numbers.And on my lunch breaks, while I was working in the tax business, I'd make cold calls on my lunch breaks for property tax loans.And again, I started stacking those up.And then in 2019, went out on my own, started my own property tax lending business to where people couldn't pay their property taxes.We'd loan them the money, and then we'd get first lien position.And so then all of a sudden, I started realizing I was competing.I was the first and only to make outbound phone calls, Set up a call center in Jacksonville, Florida, because Jacksonville is the call center capital of the United States.And I was flying back and forth to Jacksonville.And next thing you know, I started realizing I gotta offer people more than just a property tax loan.And I'm like, protesting.Why aren't you doing that?We can offer them protests because I've been in that world.So I call a bunch of friends that I know, and they're like, hey, Mike, if you sell it, we'll do the work.So we would sell it, turn it over to the consultant.They would do the work.And next thing you know, I created a very good value add in that industry.And then I met a gentleman who's a good friend of mine, another mentor named near of Tulia, started the app next door.And one day we went to lunch, and he's like, mike, bro, you're doing this all wrong.I said, what's.What do you mean?He goes, you got to start thinking like a technology firm and not a protesting firm or a lending business.And I was like, wow, you're right.And I was at one of my son's football game, he's 12 now, but saw a parent was monitoring their son's blood sugar levels with an app.So if he was playing and needed to give him a Starburst, they could see it on an app.And it hit me and I was like, oh my gosh, I can monitor people's property taxes like Lifelock monitors their credit report all through application and artificial intelligence.And this is 2022, 2023.Right, right.So still early in the game on AI, but I'd already started playing with it a little bit.And then obviously my friend who's a billionaire started Nextdoor.And Nextdoor is a global company and it helps to have people like him in your corner, you know, that I can just text to go near.What do you think?And, and he helps me right from time to time when he has a chance because he's so busy.And then I started building this app and taking the human version of protesting, creating AI.I end up selling my property tax lending business in October of 2024 so I could do nothing but focus on this because I noticed 97% of my clients who were getting tax loans had never appealed their property taxes.And I was like, this is a problem.I can no longer give payday loans to people.You know, let me, let me figure this out.And so again, that's, that's how the Andy app was born, which is, hey man, giving people a one click button so they don't get into financial distress if they, so they don't, you know, lose their homes because their property taxes.Because I've heard all those stories.

So, right.

That's in essence how we got to this point.And I'm still, you know, learning and getting better and trying to help the folks of Texas educate.Matter of fact, I'm trying to work with a US State senator now that we're calling the property tax and education a closing act, which is, hey, when you buy property in Texas at the closing table, you should watch a five to seven minute video on educating you on property taxes.What your tax rates are.Heck, Collin county just raised their tax rates.How many people actually know that Harris county raised tax rates?When you get your assessment in the mail, it's yellow and blue and heck, it looks like junk mail.So you throw it away.You know, when I get.People call me in September and go, hey, I want to protest.I'm going, well, no, you just missed the deadline.The only thing we could do is try to go get refunds, which we can, but it's harder and they don't even know the deadline.So, again, I'm so passionate about this because, you know, this is the American dream.This is the Texans dream.You own a home, you own a property, and you should know what you're getting into, especially in our state.

Right.How many do you have the exact number or.I mean, there's no exact number, but just the estimates in Texas on how many people actually who live in their home actually have a homestead exemption applied.

You know, there's much.I mean, everybody does a study, so you can't really dial it in.

That's hard.

Yeah, it's hard.But what I've heard, because of the influx of people Moving into Texas, two out of every 10 Texans don't have an over 65 exemption or have a homestead on their property.Because if you think about like there's a big major title company, these folks are closing 400 loans a week.

Right.

And you're going, how many of those 400 a week are actually getting homestead exemption filings?I would say 2% are actually physically doing it.So, yeah, it's a problem.And so I think with the Andy app, we're working with certain folks, like we've got a big home inspector that just came on board as a partner, Right.So we do a 50, 50 equity split revenue split.Excuse me, not equity revenue split, where we do a residual income, so they make a percentage of the.Of the savings year after year.And we do that with realtors and loan officers and stuff.As long as we're under, you know, Texas real estate rules and everything else are good.But with that being said, if we can get it at the closing table, we solve this problem immediately.And so that's what we're trying to do is partner with some of these folks to be able to get it into closing.And I know some of those title companies can't make revenue off of it, which is okay, but at least it solves and gives a value add.So when that client leaves the closing table and given the keys, they know that 30$200 mortgage payment is it for the next 30 years or close to it, because every year we're going to apply or appeal and apply the homestead exemption, because don't forget, they can remove the homestead exemption and make you re.Re.Apply it every five years.Now that's another law they.

Oh, I did not know that, too.So they can actually, now, the state of Texas can actually remove your homestead and make you put it.

Yeah, just make you.Yeah, make you.Make you.It's not even removing it, it's just making you reapply.Reapply.For it to go.Well, we, we're going to do a check on you and, and make them reapply.So our app is going to monitor that.Not to mention, if you pull a permit, they can also remove it because they think you added value to the property for that.

Yeah, yeah.Well, yeah, and there's how they change those rules on, on permitting.You know, different things that do.Permitting is expensive, but also, you know, there's a lot of contractors out there that just won't do stuff unless, you know, they, they go through the right channels on it.And if that's occurring, then, yes, you're gonna.If the county's aware of that, then, you know, you, you really need somebody fighting for you in that case, because you're doing improvements on your home, which everybody should be able to do, but you have to be able to save as much money as you can because you're spending enough money on the improvements by themselves.

So.

Wow, I didn't know that.Okay, so what?Just getting a little bit on the AI side of it because it, it definitely sounds like in, in terms of, you know, understanding this technology, you're down the road further than most.But I would still say, like, kind of like me.You're.I would argue that you're not the, the coder or, you know, the programmer that's in there building this.

Right.

But you understand how it works.You understand what the, you know, methodology is and how you want it to behave and look, but I'm curious, just, just with your involvement in, in this technology now, what did, what have you learned that has kind of either surprised you or, or, you know, you were a little taken aback by what you thought this was going to do versus what it does or what it can do.

It's just, if you can think it, AI can do it.It's wild, right?So we were even talking or we have conference calls every week, and I've got a team that works on this 24 7.Right.So it's always getting better.It's always.The app is never done.So when you talk about competition and yes, there's a few firms out there that have got me beat in branding by three or four years, right.Because they spend a lot of money on billboards and radio ads.But for me, nobody can Catch us technology wise.Now we're so far ahead of everybody because we built an ecosystem, not just an app.Right.And so with, with my advice on, on AI, it's, you have to learn with it, right?So you have to graduate each grade with it.Because if not, like if you're a second grader now, which is basically where AI is now, I would say it's a second grader.Right, Right.And then next thing you know, it's going to be a third grader, fourth grader, fifth grader.You have to go with it.If you don't, it's going to, it's.It could, it could be so bad for small to medium sized businesses where they thought that their values on the company or X, turns out when private equity comes to buy them, they're going, well, you have no AI tools, you don't even know anything.So no, your, your company's worthless.You just have clients, you have no innovation.Right.So what I've learned is that it's here, it's going to get better and if we don't learn with it, and it can help us too as far as our lives.Look at my app's doing.It's, it's taking the old appeal process from looking like jury duty to watching Netflix basically through a click of a button.Right?

Right.

And we were doing some work on the app the other day and they sent me a video my team did because I've got a really big private equity partner that owns an AI firm.So it's not some ragtag crew that's working on this.Right.This is a legitimate operation.But I took a video that they sent me, my team did, and I put it into Claude and I said, please watch this and give me any sentence structure, grammatical errors, anything.And literally like five minutes later it came back and I was like this for I could like 10 minutes.I go, it watched like Claude watched the video.Like that is to me was blown.I was blown away by it.And so now with the Andy app and what we can do in the future is literally solve so many problems, not only with, with property taxes, but I also give you all your pedophile data and all your crime data and all your sex offender data.I right now in the app show you their mug shots, I show you what they were convicted of, I show you how far they live from your front door to, to their front door.I'll even show you their front door.So it's endless what AI is going to start doing as far as giving people information that they can make decisions on everyday life to help them, not just hurt them.Because we hear all the negative stuff on AI, But I'm positive with it.I think it's Americans, like, if you go to France, they make fun of us because they think we work too hard.I think honestly, Americans are going to enjoy life better and more because of AI.

Yeah, yeah.Well, I, I kind of think of it like this and I think there's a, there's a disconnect sometimes where people look at it and go, okay, this is going to take away the human element of whatever it is, right?And, and you know what, to some degree that's true.But, but I would argue that it gives the human more autonomy to be able to do things and come up with new ideas and new, new ways of doing things.Because a lot of the monotonous stuff, it's, it's like, you know, you know, like a plumber, right?Like imagine a plumber with a green lantern ring, if anybody knows what that is.But where, where they just show up and if they need a wrench, they just make a wrench.And if they need, you know, a plunger, they just make a plunger.If they need a new ring, they don't have to go to Home Depot.They don't have to, you know, go back to their truck and pull out the thing that they were missing.It's just right there on call.All the stuff that they know how to do that they're already aware of, they just, it's the monotonous getting up, going to the truck, getting up, going to Home Depot, doing whatever.That's the stuff that using this tool, AI in general starts to eliminate for you is all the monotonous stuff that you have to do every day.You can put a lot of it on autopilot or you can get it done much faster.So then you can really start to use your brain to think, okay, what, what can I do with this?How can I grow my business?How can I help my customers better?What, what kind of streamlined services can I offer?Which most people, when they run a small business, they don't have time to do that because they're so mired in the day to day.They're so mired in responding to the emails, they're dealing with their bank accounts, they're doing all of that stuff that they can't innovate and they can't come up with fresh ideas and take better care of their customers.And I think that's what this technology, at least at the level that you and I have access to it.That's what this technology does for people.

Yeah.And.And if you think about the folks that are just your everyday run of the, say, run of the mill, but, you know, everyday Texan, you know, family of four.Right.The house in Frisco or house in the Colony or whatever it may be, if you think about that, they're looking at AI going, oh, this is dangerous.Could be dangerous.Could lose my job.Well, if you were Andy client, you just used AI and, and you were wanting to go on vacation and you were trying to figure out how you were going to spend 2,500 bucks to go on vacation, and I just saved you $2,500 in property taxes.

Right.

So AI just made your life a whole lot better.Right?

Yeah.

And when it's used responsibly, AI is.Is going to literally make our lives less stressful.We'll be able to spend more time with family because again, I just made you spend more time with your family because I saved you 2,500 bucks in your property taxes.Now you could take a road trip down to.To.To Austin or to the Hill country and, and enjoy yourself.Right.Because you just protested your property taxes using artificial intelligence and you did it for very minimal amount.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah.Well, where do you guys see.Or where do you see Andy app going in the next, say, like, five years?What.What kind of, what kind of features are you trying to add to it?Where are you trying to take it?You know, because you said, as you said, it's never finished.So what's the stuff coming down the pipe?

Yeah.So right now we're.Once the AI is obviously done in Texas, we've already done that.And so we can go to Florida and some of the other places that, that have, you know, issues like property taxes with Texas.But, you know, I do a lot of political events, not.Not on either side of the aisle.I just interview politicians, if you follow me on my Instagram channels and stuff, or I ask them about property taxes.And I was at an event and they handed me a sample ballot, and it was a piece of paper.And I looked at my wife and I go, what is this?She goes, I think they said, that's the voting initiatives for the city of McKinney coming up.And I'm like, what is this, 1999?It's a piece of paper.So we're actually going to automate all your town hall meetings, all your school board meeting agendas, and all your voting initiatives in the app as well, that's coming down the pipe here in the next six months.So when you think about, you know, what.What from a.From a community standpoint, we get so wrapped up in Donald Trump and.And Kamala Harris and all that stuff in Washington politics, and I'm going, no, you got to worry about Frisco, who just opened a Universal Studios, which you and I both know, Mike, who's paying for that?It's.Yeah, yeah, Exactly.And City McKinney.And I love the City of McKinney because we won their economic development award.We're about to, you know, hopefully win their.Their who and McKinney's best award.But they just built a airport, or, I mean, commercial airlines are coming in now.They just built an ample theater.Right.Who's paying for that?Yes, it drives dollars to the city, but ultimately, you need to go to the town hall meetings to figure out if that's something that you want in your community.And we're just so disconnected from our local communities.You know, you don't even know your neighbor.And I went back to mention the sex offender data that we have.You don't even know who the neighbor is, and maybe he was convicted of a crazy sex crime, and he lives three doors down from you.Right.So my whole idea is educating community similar to what next door is doing.Nothing wrong with next door, but on a much deeper dive.Property taxes, local initiatives, crime in the neighborhood.That's where we're ultimately going with this.So when you show up to vote, you look down and you go, yeah, I know exactly what Proposition A is, because you already saw it on our app.

Yeah, it's hilarious how many people argue, you know, the merits of the red team versus blue team on Twitter all day long and sit there for hours and bark at each other, but then you go to a town hall meeting for your school board, and there's seven people in the audience, and you're just like, wait a minute.What I don't understand.Because, you know, you don't.You can only impact things to such a degree for so long and.

Or.

Or in your life.And so if you think that you have any bearing or weight on, you know, the.Other than showing up to vote for the.You know, even the Senate election, you know, in Texas for the senator stuff that everybody's losing their mind about right now or the attorney general, I mean, it's like all these teams have all this stuff planned out ahead of time.Okay, go cast your vote.Fine.But why don't you show up to the town hall meeting.Why don't you show up to the school board meeting?Why don't you show up and vote for your mayor and vote for your city council?Because those are the people that actually impact your life on a day to day basis.And if you're not involved in that or you're not, you know, fired up about that, then I don't know why you're spending four hours on Twitter discussing the merits of, you know, whatever's happening in the world that you have literally no impact on.

No impact on.Right.And again, that's why I think education is so key.Community education is so key.And I think our app does that.I think it through using artificial intelligence, we can educate what's going on in your communities and stop worrying about.Yes, it is important national politics, it is important world politics.I'm not trying to, you know, demonize that.But at the same time, if you really want to worry about your pocketbook, it's your local school board, it's your local city council, it's your local tax rates.Right.And I do applaud Collin County.They haven't raised their property tax rates and I think they said 33 years.So congratulations, that's awesome.But now you just did.And the community needs to know about it and needs to know why.And if the community doesn't like it, they should be able to go to the voting booth and cast their constitutional right to vote that person in or out.

Yeah.So if somebody in the real estate industry, whether it be title company, mortgage companies, real estate agents, you know, you guys obviously work in, in, in lock step with a lot of these groups.What, you know, what are some things that they can do to help their clients with this?

Yeah, I think it's partner with us.Right.We've got, we've got a really good compensation package for referrals.You know, we, we, we, we are able to make sure that they're not violating any rules with, you know, the Texas Real Estate Commission or anything like that.And so reach out to me on, on Instagram, the Andy app and would love to show you guys how you can help your client because again, I go back to who's getting blamed when their mortgage payment goes up and it's the realtor, it's the loan officer, it's the title company.Right.You could tell them to your blue in the face and I know it's not your problem and they should have done it.But ultimately, you know, you guys know human beings, we always point fingers at everybody else.Right.So again and then it's also a touch point.So in our back office, we set our clients or our partners up with a sophisticated back office.We know where the sale came from.You get a link and a QR code.You text that link out to your customers, they sign up, you can see it in your back office and we track your clients.So when we do end up saving the money, we're building this out right now.Where for instance, I've got a lady named Paris Insurance agency shout out to Lily.But Lily is one of our partners.So when she writes a home insurance policy, she also protests their taxes through Andy.Right.And at the end of the year, not into the year, but property tax year, the end of the property tax year, she's able to go in her back office and she's going to be able to email her client and it looks like it's coming from her and her insurance agency that she just saved them $1,300 on their property taxes.So it's all white labeled for, for our partners.Right.And then they get a percentage of the savings.Right.So instead of us going out and spending money on billboards and you know, everything else, we think we should split that revenue with our partnership.50, 50 Basically.And also in refunds, if we're able to track down a refund or get a home exemption refund, we split that with a partner who brought it to us.So it's not even realtors or lenders.You know, we've got home inspectors went down and do, trying to do a deal with a property tax lending business as well.That's a friend of mine as well as insurance companies.Even your everyday, just, you know, stay at home mom, right, that, that wants to educate, you know, her, her community on property taxes and then earn life changing income from it.Because once we save the client money the first year, we continue to educate them.There's stickiness to it.They're not, they're not changing, right?

Yeah, yeah, no, it's great.That's a, you know, there's, you know, you're doing the grassroots marketing, right.You're not spending a ton of money on billboards and you're, you're getting to, to touch people and people that are involved in the transaction and giving them the opportunity to, to not only help their clients but you know, earn a little money as well.And you know, I think that's great because especially in the world of real estate these days, every little bit somebody could, could get always helps.So, you know, I strongly recommend everybody checking this Out.So the protest deadline is May 15, so we're a little bit ahead of that obviously, or 30 days after you get the notice, whichever is later.So if you're a realtor, lender, anybody in the, in the space, make sure to put a reminder on your calendar to reach out to your clients, clients starting ahead of that.And this is a great way to be able to do that.And, and like you said, which we all look for, it's another touch point.It's one more reason to reach out to your clients, talk to them and, and see if you can pick up a referral for another buy or sell.So anything to tell us before we go, Michael?Is there anything we missed?

Yeah, absolutely.You know, right now what we're working on is, you know, potential refunds.We're looking at homestead exemption refunds.So don't wait.Now's the time for us to do all of that.I mean, property tax is a year round business.What I mean by that is again, if you have a flood in October, we want a picture of it.Right.So we're going to use that in the property tax app.And, and so it's, it's not, doesn't just start when they reassess you for 20, 27.Because right now our technology can go back and track homesteads, it can go back and look at refunds.So, and again it starts you now thinking about it because geez, it's almost Halloween, right?It's, it's almost Thanksgiving.Next thing you know it's going to be, you know, 25 degrees outside in February, right?

Yes.

So you know, that's kind of it.It's making it a year round business just like federal income taxes are.And you know, going back to our partnership standpoint, I was talking to a realtor the other day and you know, she asked me a question.Yeah, I'm trying to build a pipeline or getting a better pipeline.I go, don't sell houses.And she looked at me crazy.I go, if you sell 100 people.Property tax appealing and protesting through our app because people want to talk about that right now and they always want to talk about it because again, it's a problem.Now you have a hundred new clients that I guarantee five of them need to sell their house because they can't afford the property taxes.Yeah.So if you're looking for something to talk to your client about differently at 12 o' clock today, I'm doing a big, it's a big mortgage broker here in Dallas and we think we're going to partner with them.So right now, a lot of people aren't selling houses.It's tough to get a mortgage loan going right now.They're doing a good job, really.So they're going to transition.Yeah, right, right.They're transitioning into, hey, man, let's start talking to our existing database about property tax protesting and appealing because it's a touch point, it's a conversation starter.It's what everyone wants to talk about.If, if you call them right now to go, hey, you want to refinance your home?Guess what they're going to say?I got 4%.Thank you.No, thank you.If you call and say, hey, we want to lower your mortgage payment, and we want to do that by appealing your property taxes.And all that's tracked to the Andy app.So we know exactly where to came from, we know exactly who to.Who to pay, and you can go in your back office and see all that stuff.So.So again, I appreciate your Mike and I don't want to keep talking your ear off here.I could talk to a wall about what we've built.We're super excited about it.We've got to educate Texans on property tax protesting and why they need to do it every single year.And, and so that's, that's my main pitch right now.We, we charge 49 bucks a year, so with a coupon code, you can get it your first year for a dollar called Andy Full.So if you protest your property taxes, Andy Full put in the promo code, you do it for a buck, and then we take 30% of tax savings, a little bit higher than some of the other firms.But again, we think we're valet parking and everybody can park their own car, but we think we're valet.We think we're a white glove service.We think our technology to get you more savings than some of the other human driven operations.So you keep 70% of tax savings, we take 30%.So if I save you a thousand, you keep 700, we take 300 and we'll file your property tax protesting year one for a dollar.So what do you have to lose?The only thing is the assessment.And the tax value could go down.It can never go up.It can already go what the county already said they think it's worth for that year.It can only go south.So we think it's a good value proposition.

No, it's great, Michael.I appreciate it.I think this is, this is awesome.And I love, especially the fact that you guys are here in Texas and you know, the pain of how all this stuff works.You're not operating out of some Silicon Valley, you know, site.So y' all know how it works in Texas.You know, what the tax issues are, and.And I definitely suggest everybody go check this out.

And we're backed by the city, McKinney, economic development.Out of a thousand companies, we submitted ours, and we won.So The City of McKinney gave us an innovation award.Very proud of it.So when.When a city gets behind you and they see what you're building, there's a lot of credibility in that because I. I got blood tests and everything to do that.They wanted my firstborn.I mean, I got vetted like it was going out of style, and I kept going again.You want more?I just gave you this.You know, my financials.What else do you need?Right?But so we.We are.We do have a tremendous amount of credibility, even though we're a new company.You know, give us a shot, guys.And we need to prove it more than anybody because we are newer to the block, so.

Yeah.Yeah.Well, thank you, Michael.I appreciate your time, man.We'll definitely get the link out to everybody.If you're listening to this, I'll put in the show notes and everything that'll go out so y' all can get signed up and get rolling.But otherwise, uh, everybody have a great week.Uh, coming to the weekend, weather's been nice.We're actually dealing in 70s and not a thousand degrees.I know we got some storms coming, but I think everybody will be happy.So everybody have a great weekend, and I will see you on the next go.Thank you, Michael.