Land Income Opportunities: Passive RV Rental Strategies Explained

I definitely want to, I would like to get a pool going of different realtors because I see the benefit even more on their side.

Okay.

Because for their buyers or sellers, they could say, you know, to the sellers, hey, we can make money until it sells, or you can, it will increase the property value when you're then trying to sell it, saying, hey, you can also make money with this land. So yeah, there's a lot of benefit there.

So, yeah, I didn't think about that.When you're, when you're actually listing a property, if you're, if you're selling it, showing that it's already earning some income on its own, that probably adds to the value quite a bit. What is your, how would you approach an agent and tell them, hey, look, here's, here's what it's doing, here's how it boosts the value.How would you see that?

I, I just have a couple friends who are realtors, so I've just been chatting the idea with them. I haven't gone after it aggressively yet, so I'm still kind of figuring out what the right message is to get realtors to like, want to get on board.

Well, hello everybody and welcome to the Texas Real Estate and Finance Podcast. My name is Mike Mills and I am a local mortgage mortgage banker in Dallas Fort Worth with Service First Mortgage.And today we are joined by Kaylee Harrington.She is the founder and CEO of a company called Hookup and this is a platform for connecting RV travelers with private landowners for long term income producing stays. It's pretty much the Airbnb for RVs. With city policies shifting and demand from remote workers, travel, nurses, all holding strong.We're going to dig into land as a service and how it works, what it pays, and how realtors and investors can monetize land before they sell. So if you own land or you buy land or you sell land or you help people buy or sell land, you are not going to miss this. Want to miss this one?Now I'm going to apologize up front because I haven't, my, my health hasn't been dramatically great in the last couple of days. I'm fine. So if I'm sound terrible or coughing through this, I apologize. But we're going to, we're going to fight through it as best we can.Kaylee, thank you for joining me today, for popping on with us. So let's, let's just start right off the top. Tell us about Hook Hub, what you guys do.You know, how your structure is set up and how people can you know, really start to, to look at making money with their land if they own it.

Yeah. Well, I love that you described it like Airbnb. It's the easiest way to grasp the concept.

Yes.

So anyone with land, and I want to mention right up front, they don't need hookups. Anyone with land, they can go onto hook hub and list it within a few minutes. It doesn't take long.And then they can start making money with RV parking. Of course, if you have those amenities, people can charge more.So really our goal is like anyone, let's say you just have a little lot next to your house, you can rent that out, make money, or we have quite a bit. Few people who are wanting to start kind of their own mini RV park. You know, they want five spots, 10 spots, and that's really like our sweet spot.We're really good for that because we include host coverage, we verify the renters, we do the advertising. So, yeah, that kind of gives you an idea as a landowner how you can get going.

Well, and it's, it's kind of crazy. You know, I always kind of try to find some from some stats on this stuff so people can kind of get some context as to how beneficial this is.But, you know, when you look at, you know, the rv, like the RV Industry association, they had a summer forecast now where they prevent, they project like in 2025, wholesale shipments to be about 337,000 units. And so that's a lot of R being purchased, you know, across the country.And, you know, these days, like 11 million or more households are participating in camping from 24, 2024 versus 2019. Traveler spending is up to like $61 billion in camping spend from last year in 2024.So, and that's like a daily spend, a household of like $200, you know, a month on this. So, so there is a lot.And especially when you look at, you know, if you go to YouTube and search for the glampers and the, in the Gen Z's, they are living remote, they are traveling all over the place.They've kind of, you know, I, for better or worse, they've kind of dumped the idea of owning a home to some extent, which is sad for our world, but hopefully that'll turn around.But, but at least right now, the idea of, of going from town to town and getting in adventures, as I like to say, is, is actually a, a pretty, a pretty attractive thing for most, for most young folks. And, and like I said in the intro, you know, when it comes to travel, Nurses and all of these remote jobs that are now popping up all over the place.People have a lot more freedom on where they can be and where they can work from.So how are you seeing, especially like when you, when you start looking at demographics of folks that are, that are using your service, are they younger, are they older? What are you seeing on your end?

Well, that's a good question. And surprisingly it is younger. Actually more than 50% of the market of RVers is the younger generation.

Yeah.

And surprising is that most of it's full timers. We get like some of the vacationers and there's people camping. But with us, 90% of our renters are looking for full time.So they're not necessarily just popping around.It's just like you said, a travel nurse or a lot of people because they can work remote now, they'll live wherever they want and they just need that long term parking.

So is it more individuals or is it families or, or is it a little bit mix of both? What are you seeing?

Definitely a mix of. Mix of both.I, yeah, I would say it's an, it's a pretty even spread across the board of all the different ages because the younger we have some older and families. And I will say it's kind of odd. I found there's quite a bit of single divorced women with kids.

Okay.

There's like a huge influx of that.

Okay.

So, yeah, I'm not sure. I guess they're just switching to that.

Lifestyle, looking to get out of Dodge and go and see what they can do outside. Yeah, well, I mean, it makes a lot of sense.I mean, look, I'm sure, you know, because, you know, when we, when we spoke before we decided to do this episode, you told me a little bit about your early growing up and your travels and, and what you were up to and how you kind of, you know, your family in and of itself is, has kind of adopted this lifestyle a little bit and, and really enjoyed it.And I think, you know, there's a lot to be said about, you know, getting out in nature because you know, these days especially we're so locked into these cities and suburbs that, you know, just to see gra. Green grass on the ground is a rarity and, and being near water.Everybody's, everybody seems to be happier that lives near a lake or lives near the ocean. So just for your entire mindset, it seems like something that, that's beneficial.

Yeah, Yeah, I was definitely living this, this lifestyle. I was living the full time RV life. And I agree. I, I Like to be outdoors. I don't know. I couldn't just stay in the city.

Yeah.

What attracted you to it initially when you, when you kind of, before you even did the business? What, what was it about, about that lifestyle that you really liked?

Well, I'm a software engineer, so that's my background and I can work remotely. I've always just been a little more free spirited though, so I think it's just kind of who I am. And I was like, you know, I can work anywhere now.I didn't have to be in an office. And so it didn't take long. You know, within a month I bought a truck, I bought a trailer, and I was gone.

Now, is this when you were single or when you, like when you were.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

You know you're married now, right?

I am, I am With a boy. Yeah. With a son. So, yeah, things are easier when you're single. You can just take off and go. But soon the whole family, we're hoping to do it again.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I mean, again, it's, it's, it's kind of a thing where, you know, when you have the flexibility and freedom to do these types of things and you know, these days everything's so damn expensive and everything costs a lot of money.And so when you can look at, okay, I could travel, which a lot of people want to do, whether they do it or not, it always seems to be a topic of these, these are the things I wish I could do.So when you have that along with the, the freedom to go where you want to go and then especially when you're single and having that capability, ability, it's, it's, it's really great. And not only that you don't have to own a house.You can own this, you know, vehicle that you can park in a lot of different places and still be able to get, you know, all the adventure, you know, in life that you want, but still keep your job.

Right, right.And just on that point, I was surprised to see actually most of our full time, you know, RVers, a lot of them do own their own home and land back home and they rent their land out on hookup while they're somewhere else. So, yeah, I just want to throw that in there. A lot of these people, it's just a big change in the trend of the full time RVer.Everybody thinks that, you know, the retired snowbirds, but it is a lot of young people who, you know, do have their own place, but yeah, they just want a different lifestyle.

I like snowbirds That's a good one.

Yeah.

What.When you, okay, when you first came up with this concept, what was kind of the, the iteration where you decided, okay, I think this is a, this is a need in a market that I could fill. And was there, is there much competition out there?Where did you see the, the gaps in, you know, where you thought you could find a niche in this, in this particular, you know, type of lifestyle?

Oh, that's a great question.So first, how I came up with the idea and why I created it is, you know, I was living the full time RV life and the RV park I was staying at the time, I've been there like three months. And then I find out from my neighbor in the RV park that the RV park was sold. And I'm like, what are you talking about?So I go find the owner and I can't get a hold of him. And then somebody finally, the new owner came and talked to me and he's like, yeah, you have two weeks to get out. And I'm like, what?Like, how can you do this? So I started looking and this wasn't even peak season and I couldn't find RV parking.I mean, I looked and I called and you know, it's your typical, you search Google, you find a place, you call, you wait for a call back. It's just not many places on websites. It was just a mess and it took me months and I end up just staying on a friend's property.And then later, like a week later, I'm just like driving along and I'm like, hey, what? Why isn't there something like that? You know, I can just pay them through the app, I can book stay on their property. So that's why I started looking.There are a couple competitors besides RV parks. Like the main one would be Harvest Hosts and Hip Camp.

Okay.

The big difference is though, because I tried theirs and they're all for short term. They're all about camping. You stay for one night or you stay for the weekend. I was like, well, that's not how I am.When I go to a new place, I want to stay for a couple months or, you know, maybe even longer. So I was like, there really is no demand or there is no, nobody doing this yet. So I just started building and that was it.

Wow.

Yeah, I, I also found it said something along the lines of that when, when they talk about people that live this and do this, that booking difficulty is, is a number one concern.It said something like 50%, you know, over 50% of the campers kind of struggled to find campsites and book last year and that's up from like 40% from the year before.So you know, you're of people that are more and more trying to get into this and are running into challenges like you had where, like how do I find this, where can I go? You know, what's the, where are the sites available, what are the amenities? And, and there doesn't seem to me me much out there now.The market is growing, but the services that associate to that market are maybe having a hard time keeping up with the demand that's starting to show.

Yeah, yeah, there I would say the, the supply side is they're like dinosaurs. Like I said no, most of them don't have websites or if they do, you can't book on there. You still have to call.And yeah, it' amazing how this market is growing so much.And like the RVers, all of us tend to be more techy and like we're advanced but our needs are, our needs are not being met, you know, by the RV parks or what, what we're looking for. So yeah, there's this huge gap.

Well, and, and you know, when I do mortgage lending, one of the questions I get all the time is people ask me if we finance land because a lot of people are you know, out purchasing property, especially in Texas. You know, we have a lot of land out here, especially if you get outside the cities.And you know, for, from a lending perspective like we, I work for a mortgage bank and we specialize in loans that are done through Fannie and Freddie and Hud and VA and those type of deals. And there's just not a lot of land loans that come through those different portals.You have to typically go to like a private bank that's in that area and get a loan through them. They're usually short term, 10 year arms to some extent.You know, there's, there's a lot of different products available but you can't do it through the normal channel. So even just financing land is a challenge. But, but I run into it all the time. People ask me like literally every week I get that question.So there's definitely a demand for people that are buying land. What we see a lot of times too is people will purchase a property, let's say, or even a lot of times they'll inherit properties.This happens quite a bit too on a lake, right. And it's not developed. They haven't put a house on it or anything along those lines.And they're like, well eventually we're going to build our retirement home here, or eventually we're going to do this. Right. And sometimes eventually comes, but often it doesn't. But. But these. These properties are owned by people.They're just sitting there and they're not being utilized.And having something like this where people are aware that, hey, you have this piece of raw land that doesn't cost you much, odds are it's probably paid for. You might be paying taxes, which are going to be pretty low because it's unimproved taxes. There's nothing on there.So, you know, it's like, okay, well, what can I do with this?And I just don't think people understand how much demand there is for people looking for these spots and having a service that you can go out and find it.

Right. Yeah. They don't realize how easy it could be to start making money off it. And it's kind of sad because land is such an asset.There's a lot you can do with it.And, yeah, I'm hoping to get the message out there so people can actually, you know, either make money when they're selling it, buying it, just sitting on it. Yeah. Which happens a lot.

So you said earlier that.That there are people that have hookups and, you know, for water and electricity and they maybe even have a, you know, a concrete slab or something along those lines. A lot of your, you know, listers, let's call it, they don't necessarily have those hookups, and it's not always needed.Can you talk a little bit about that?

So on that point, you do not need them. But I would say most of our listers do have hookups.I was kind of shocked to see how many people, at least water and electric, because you don't actually need traditional hookups. We have people who just run the electrical cord from their house and they run a water line, and that's all they need.Sorry, I forgot where we were going with that, but.

Well, it's compared to. Yeah, without. Without the hookups.

So without the hookups. Yeah, you can still list, because we also. You can do storage, parking on the app, and you can do boondocking. People do pay for that.Boondocking is when you pay to park your RV without any hookups. So especially areas where there's a lot of private land, there's nowhere to park. So either way, you can still make money with that.We had one guy making over 700amonth with one spot that was dry. No. No hookups.

Really?

Yeah.

So. So it's. You could Almost say that they're using it kind of like just paid parking.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of amazing that you can just literally. Yeah, we had, it's in Chino Valley. A woman listed her spot. No hookups, no amenities, nothing.And yeah, we got her a month to month renter.

Wow.

Yeah, I guess it would be a situation where you're, you have a, you have an RV that either is sitting in front of your house, which a lot of neighborhoods don't appreciate, or maybe you have a little bit of land, but it's taking up a spot out there.But if you could find a relatively inexpensive place to just store it essentially without having to, you know, worry about all the fees associated with big, big time parking or storage areas. I guess that's another, another avenue and a benefit for it that people don't understand.

Absolutely. Yeah. It's. It's shocking how expensive it is to just do storage. Yeah. So, yeah, people will use our app because the hosts do it much cheaper.And I like to think it's more secure too, because a lot of our properties, the hosts live there on the property. So you kind of, you have somebody watching over it and vice versa, you know, you know, rver watching over your property for you.

Yeah, yeah, no, that's, yeah, that's, that's a, it's a huge benefit.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, there's a lot of facets to it. Like you have a lot of different things. It's not just people going on vacation. It's parking, it's storage.It's, it's, you know, someone that's working that maybe even in some more of a suburban area. I mean, so, so that's a question. So how many do you know?You know, obviously there's a lot of land that's out of the way a little bit, but, but also on top of that, how much do you see, you know, people that are kind of in either city or suburban areas that just happen to own three or four acres, that's a little bit unique. Do you see a lot of that?

We haven't gotten the people. There's people I'm talking to who are like in the cities with a couple acres that I'm like your prime spot. We should.But most of people renting out their spots, they're gonna be a little more on the outskirts that we have people in the cities that are just like, you know, right on the outskirt. The thing is there's more demand for RV parking like in the city, but right now.

Right.

We gotta Spread the message more and tell people to get in those cities.

So what is the. What is the general pricing model look like when you. When you're set up to, you know, whether it's longer term, stay, shorter term stays.With hookups, without hookups, depending on the location, what are you seeing? Like, how's your pricing structure set up?

So location amenities do make a difference, but just as a generalization, for a nightly, we have between 40 to 100 a night. They can make that's. And that range includes with and without hookups.As for monthly, that's where you really see a difference between with hookups, without hookups. With hookups, we see a range between 800 to 1200amonth. And for without hookups, it can be 4 to 500.

Wow.

So, I mean, per one space.

Yeah, I mean, that's again, I mean, that's. If you just have raw land that's sitting there with nobody doing anything with it, it's just. I mean, it's not free money, but it's pretty close.

It kind of is. Yeah. If you just do storage, you know, you make a few hundred off each storage, you know, unit that you allow. That's. That's decent.That's decent money.

Yeah.

I mean, it's. Yeah. Because it's not doing anything otherwise. So. So it's good. Do you. Do you run into, like, what kind of challenges are you seeing when it.When it comes, like, for the landowners, any kind of, like the liability and, you know, I'll give you an example. So. So I have some land where I live. I live in Mansfield, which is a suburb of Dallas Fort Worth. And we have three acres and on our back, two acres.It's just a bunch of trees with very little much of anything else. Right. We have a creek that runs behind our house, and that's pretty much it.But occasionally when it rains hard enough, I will get some flooding back there because it is in a flood zone. But, you know, you're talking maybe one or a foot of water, you know, for 30 minutes or something, and it goes away.And it happens once every six months or something like that, so.

Oh, wow.

So what are you seeing, like, as far as landowners holding liability for if something happens to it, you know, when the person's not there? How do you guys navigate that?

So we do include host coverage. So it's damage protection.So for right now, the coverage includes, for if any damage happens to the host's property, anything at all, we will reimburse them for that. If something were to happen to the RVer. Right now we're just doing more mediation.Like, I'll reach out, I'll help the RVer, and we do reimburse them, but we don't advertise that yet.

Right, right, right.

So, yeah. Really just on the host side, protecting them.

Yeah, yeah.

Because, I mean, anytime you have property, there's always liability concerns as to, you know, when it's being stored, someone else somewhere else and how that fits into it and, and all that. So now as far as, like the, the.And we talked a little bit about the younger folks that are out there, but as far as, like, employment style, where, you know, the travel nurse thing is huge. Excuse me, is huge these days. And you're seeing a lot of people, you know, move around from city to city working based on their contracts and stuff.So is that. Is. Is. Are you seeing that as like a growing market and a growing lot of things?

Absolutely. The nurses and I would say construction workers, too.

Okay.

If you don't realize a lot of those large construction projects that happen, they'll bring in their guys from all over and then they'll be there for three to six months. So. Absolutely. We're seeing a lot of demand for, in those fields.

So that means you probably have a pretty big corporate book of clients that, that are always looking for spots because they may even own several RVs and they're doing construction in area and they need to move stuff into it. It's kind of like, like, again, back to the Airbnb model.You know, a lot of people thought in the beginning with Airbnbs that it was just all vacation stuff.I'm going to go to the lake or I'm going to go to the beach or the mountains or whatever, and I'm going to rent a place and we're going to have a family vacation.But now you're starting to see a lot more Airbnbs in cities and in suburbs where companies will come in, they will rent that spot out to their employee for a period of time, and then that person will live there for three months or six months or however long their contract is, and then they'll leave out. So I'm imagining that's probably becoming a big part of what you guys do as well.

Absolutely, that's exactly it. I would say the majority of it is that.

Yeah, yeah.

Are you, Are you having, you know, with. With the corporate side of things?Are you developing, like, partnerships or just specific, you know, contacts with these larger companies and then trying to network through that to find those, those renters?

So I love that question. So to anybody out there listening, that's what we're looking at right now because we want to get more of those partnerships.Currently we've just been doing it on our own and finding, you know, the host, the renters, a lot of legwork.But we are looking for those partnerships to like, one on one, you know, these companies, like, we'll take care of you, getting you, you know, places to rent.

Yeah.

So what would you tell somebody who was, say, an investor and they were looking for land and thinking about utilizing it for something like this? What, what type of, what type of, you know, properties or, or areas would you suggest people look at, you know, to.If they're, if they're looking to get into something like this and have it utilized for that?

Well, there is definitely certain areas that have higher demand. But I would tell somebody looking to do this, I wouldn't worry as much as you think about that. Little location demand is so high.I have people with property and locations that you would think no one really wants to go to that were getting booked up completely. So I wouldn't worry about that necessarily. The main thing is, is see if you can get water and electric there.As long as you can offer those two specifically, then you're guaranteed to get those bookings.

Yeah.

Do you have, I'm curious if you have any, any unique stories on people that, you know, have used your service, that you've talked to and have kind of gone through the process a little bit that have had some experiences that you, you know, good and bad that, that you've kind of come across? Have you, have you heard much of those crazy narratives?

I wish I had heard more funny stories right now. Fortunately, it's nothing bad or it's just been good feedback. Everybody has liked the process.I can't think of any like actual, like, funny stories or something that's happened just yet, but I'm sure.

What about, what about for you personally? Because you've been living this, this, this lifestyle for a while. So what, what have you personally experienced and come across?

Oh, well, I mean, anyone that's an entrepreneur out there knows that the lifestyle is. It's a roller coaster, it's fun, it's been good. You know, we hit growth spurts and that's been great.And there's times, you know, where you're just in the grind. Otherwise, that's just pretty much what it's been. You know, you stay focused and yeah, just keep going.

So you did, you did software engineering prior to this? I'm sure you worked for somebody and now you're doing this full time, right?

Yep, yep. I went full time once I started building it.

So. So how did your experience doing software engineering kind of help you, you know, take the step and be able to pull something like this off?

Well, I think just the mentality of a software engineer, you know, you're somebody that if you come across a problem, you know, you don't see it as a problem, you see it as there's a solution. I just haven't found it yet. You know, a lot of engineers, like, they won't give up for like a dog with a bone.

Yeah.

And that definitely carries over to being, you know, an entrepreneur. Entrepreneur. Now with the engineer experience, obviously that really helps with the app when we have bugs.Whenever I want features, you know, I know exactly how to make that happen. But also just that mentality, it keeps you going, that stubbornness. Yeah, it gets you there.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, have you decided, you know, AI is becoming a big part of everybody's life these days.

Yeah.

So have you started to explore some. Some different applications that you could use to kind of benef fit what you guys are offering people and trying to integrate some of that?

Yeah. So I would say for right now, we are using it for marketing. It's wonderful for that. You know, I have an idea.I hope chat GBT help helps me build it out.And then especially when it comes to our social media posts, I'll go in there, give a few prompts, and it just kind of inspires you and helps you come up with more ideas.

Yeah.

For future though, for the app, there's a lot of ideas I want to add in first, for even us finding hosts, I want to do like, smart lead recommendations.There's a way I'd like to build out with AI where it actually cannot can go through and tell me, you know, these are the demand heat maps that we're seeing, and then these are the areas we should focus on to kind of help narrow that down. Another one is for automating, onboarding for renters and hosts.It's already like, pretty simple, but I think we can make it even easier, especially if you have property.I think it'd be cool if you could just go in and pretty much, you know, show a little video, write a description, and then it would build out all the pieces we need and just prompt you like, hey, what about this? Yeah, so I really want to add that in. And that would include for pricing.So that's one of the main questions we get with hosts, they're like what should I price my property at?

Right.

And they'll usually just message me and I'll actually, I'll use chat GBT and build them out like a whole sheet and like with numbers explaining what the best is and what they should do for seasonal. But obviously when I have time I could sit down and just put that into the app, you know, it's pretty simple.So yeah, when they're like what should I price this? It'll take all the data they've given so far and tell them the best pricing.

Yeah.

So are you seeing. No, no, no, no.Are you, are you seeing that when it comes to like new new landowners that are not new landowners but new people, new customers that own land that come to you, you know, are you doing individual consultations with them up front? Just kind of say hey here's the best methods of listing and whatever.Or is it pretty much they handle it on their own or, or how do they go about listing their property with you guys?

So I do see some that just pop up on their own but majority if I'm talking to them first or they're talking to me, I like to get on a call, do a one on one. If they're close by I'll go see them.And you know, just as the, the founder it gives me more feedback too like, like what they're wanting and how to make the everything better. But yes. So right now I tend to try and meet with each host.

Gotcha.And are you guys, I mean because you're web based mostly are you pretty much everywhere across the country that you could be or are there certain licensing requirements depending on the state or how does that work?

So we are in nine states right now, but we're built for U S and Canada. But license, licensing. No, but they do need to check their city regulations or their county and we do have some documentation helping with that.Some of the hosts, I also just help them research. But yeah, you'll have to check your land specifically where you're at. Like what's allowed?

Gotcha.

And on the listing side can they specify if this is I only want short term or I want only long term or I want only storage or, or are there. Can they put limitations on what as a listing person that they can allow.

Yes to all that. So we try to make it really customizable. So we do have some people who only want nightly renters.

Right.

And then we have people who just want storage and then monthly, yearly and then sorry, the second part that you said yes. So when they. They can say only to, like, no children. Some people don't want people under 18 staying.

Okay.

Don't always know for sure why, but they don't. They only want adults there. So you can customize it just to you.And then, of course, a renter will make a booking request and you can look at their profile and depending on dates, depending on their profile, their rig, anything, you can deny it or approve it.

Okay. So they have a lot of flexibility on what they can allow in or who they want to bring in now.

Yeah.

I would imagine that the more flexibility you have on who you're allowing to come in or out, the better it's going to be as far as your bookings, right?

Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

So you put less limitations on it. You're going to have more opportunity. But at the same time, depending on your land set up, you may not. Not, you know, may not want.

Right.

To have more or less something on there. Yeah.Are you, are you seeing that, you know, when it comes to having people, you know, book with you directly, are they, or I should say, when they're, when they're booking themselves and trying to find spots, are you talking to them more or are they doing it purely online or is there, is there some communication there as well to try to figure out, you know, what exactly they're looking for and where?

Not much anymore now. Like, I mean, I put the advertising out there and all people, like, within that, they'll reach out to me, but not really now.The bookings kind of just happen on their own, and then I'll reach out to the host and, you know, they could just go on and approve it themselves. But I still like to, like I said, be one on one.So I'll reach out to the hosts and I'll go over the details with them just to make sure they're comfortable.

Gotcha.

Have you guys thought about partnering with, you know, real estate agents in rural areas that do a lot of land and, and trying to do some marketing and advertising with them in order to kind of, you know, share contacts and, and people that can, you know, have. Have, you know, people that would be interested in something like this.

Right, right, we have. I haven't followed up. I definitely want to. I would like to get a pool going of different realtors because I see the benefit even more on their side.

Okay.

Because for their buyers or sellers, they could say, you know, to the sellers, hey, we can make money until it sells, or you can, it will increase the property value when you're then trying to sell it saying, hey, you can also make money with this land. So, yeah, there's a lot of benefit there. So I'm wanting to get into some realty groups and see if, like, they can start offering that.

Yeah, I didn't think about that.When you're, when you're actually listing a property, if you're, if you're selling it, showing that it's already earning some income on its own, that probably adds to the value quite a bit. What is your, what is your approach?Like, how would you approach an agent and tell them, hey, look, here's, here's what it's doing, here's how it boosts the value. How would you see that?

So that's probably where I would need to learn more from you, from your side with the realty. I, I just have a couple friends who are realtors, so I've just been chatting the idea with them.I haven't gone after it aggressively yet, so I'm still kind of figuring out what the right message is to get realtors to like, want to get on board.

Yeah.

So you said you have a son?

Yes.

Okay. Are you, are you guys still RVing it everywhere or have you, do you have a spot that you've settled in and what's that like with kids?

So we are pretty settled in. I feel like embarrassed to say. I'm like, this is my company. We have a house. I'm actually in my RV now because I love it.But yeah, we are stationary right now. Since I been running the company. I'm sure, you know, when you're running your own thing, it's. Yes. You're busy a lot.

Yes, yes. Yeah. Do you, do you see a lot of families outside of vacation that are doing this stuff?

Yeah. Yeah. I would say that's another thing that surprised me about the market because I did my research beforehand.I thought I knew, but once you get into things, it's different. And it's been a lot of families. A lot. Yeah. Doing the full time life, which is, it's good to see.It's good to see that people are, you know, getting out and showing their kids the world.

Yeah.

Do you think they're like homeschooling and doing it there or are these. Okay.

Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. I tend to get to know a lot of them and yeah, they're all doing the homeschool thing.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I mean, it's, like I said, it's, it's become a big, you know, a big attraction for a lot of People, because of the expenses and everything that's associated to it.And, you know, it's kind of one of those things where, you know, once you understand or once you realize that you have an alternative, because we were kind of always raised in this world of, you know, you. You get a job, you settle down, you know, you do all these kind of things that. That's just what most people's expectation is. But. But as you.As the world starts to change a little bit, you start realizing, you know, that there's more and more ways to live life than just, you know, settling down in a neighborhood.

Yep. Get the white picket fence, the dog. Yeah. Now we know there's options. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. Now you have alternatives.

Yeah.

Do you see, like, as far as the bookings are concerned, are they pretty frequent as far as one location fills up pretty good, or does it depend on the location on how often they book? I mean, are you having listings that never book? You know, it's. It's kind of like an idea. Okay, I'm thinking about doing this.You know, am I really going to get bookings or am I just going to sit there as a listing forever?

Okay. Yeah, so we do a couple properties. Well, okay. First, I'll say yes. Depends on the location.Some of them just constantly, you know, it's already booked up and I've been still people contact me saying, you know, is there any way I can get in? I'm like, no, it's full. And then we have ones who. It's more of a steady pattern. Once it clears out, it takes a month. They'll get another booking.And that booking is usually like three months long. But we have a couple that I have trying to go above and beyond to get them bookings, and they're not getting bookings.And these two that I'm thinking of, it's because they're offering parking on their property in an area surrounded by public land, and they're not offering hookups. So I'm like, you gotta understand, like, the guy can go another 10ft and do the same thing for free.So if you're near public land, you definitely have to offer something extra. Private land, areas, you know, for sure people will still book with no hookups.That's why I try to tell people, if you can offer any amenities, that's going to have a drastic impact on you getting bookings. Right.

So it. It really, you know, it depends on supply and demand in the area. Right. If there's.If there's a bunch of opportunities for other people to to take parking and be able to do it there, and you don't have much to offer outside of space, then you're probably going to have a little bit less, you know, demand for that versus if you're in an area where there isn't very much, you know, parking availability.So do you guys have tools or, or research that you can provide to your listers to say, hey, look, here's, here's what we're seeing in your area, here's how many spots we have, here's what they're offering so they can compare.

It for hosts that are looking to kind of show them the. Yeah, so that. Right now, that's the AI thing I want to add in right now. If a host asks me or even somebody considering it.Yeah, I'll write up a whole thing using my AI prompt and stuff that'll like, explain all that and break it down. But that's something I want to build in because I do see a lot of, of demand for that. I'm asked that pretty often.

Yeah, well, I mean, they don't know any better. It's always helpful to say, hey, look, here's the demographics in your area. Here's where we, like you said, they're setting the pricing.Here's about what we think the pricing should be. Here's the, you know, here's how many spaces are available that were within five miles of you. Here's what they're offering, here's their demand load.It gives them a lot of data at least to make a better decision on if they think it would be worthwhile.

That would think, yeah. You saying that I'm putting it on my list. I think I need to move that up sooner, you know, question you keep hearing. It's probably something that.

Yeah, well, I mean, look, anytime you're doing a startup like you're doing, there's, there's always a little bit of trial and error. Right. It's like, okay, what do we, what do we think we need versus what do we actually need?Because a lot of times when you start a business like this, you have a vision, of course, on what you think it's going to be, but until you actually start working it, a lot of times that vision will shift because your, your, your customers tell you what they want and what they need, and you're like, okay, I have to adjust according to that. So have you come across anything like that where you were like, okay, I think this is what it's going to be.And then you were surprised as to actually what it Turned out.

Yeah, I would say that's very often.You know, you do your research, you do your homework, you plan, you interview people and so you think, you know, like what is wanted and you build that.But you're right once you're in it and you're actually giving customers something, that's when you start hearing different things, you start seeing what they really want. So the biggest one I think I mentioned before was the, the long term parking.I, I was sure it would mostly be short term people and vacation, so I geared the app more towards that for hosts and renters looking for that. And it hasn't been, it's been all for long term. So now I'm purposely finding hosts that want the long term. I'm.And I'm realizing though, because there are apps like Hip camp and there's campgrounds, you know, so there is ways for people to find that vacation stay. But as for the long term, there is no avenue for booking that easily.

Have you, have you looked at or explored the idea of being almost like a middleman between bookings for like, for example, you know, you mentioned public parks earlier. So a lot of public parks have spaces that are available, but they don't do a great job of advertising it. Right. Because they just don't.They don't put it out there.So have you started to create relationships with those to try to say, hey, look, I know you have these spots and I know you charge for them, but I can help get people to your area. Have y' all looked at that?

Absolutely. Yeah. So I actually have a couple on the app now, a couple different properties that are just like that.They're already set up and doing their business, but they weren't getting enough. So I actually have them listed with us.And so we want to start doing larger, like larger RV parks who have multiple locations and get them on as well.

Yeah, yeah, I would imagine.Because you know, a lot of times it's like any profession, like if you're especially with public ones, right, because it's being run by the government, you know, state governments, local governments and you know, they're terrible at everything.So much less marketing the services that they have to people to come out and you know, use their spaces and it's hard to find that stuff, especially if you're not from the area and you don't know the parks that are there. You don't know the availability of it.But if you have one spot that you could go to to figure all that out, it would just make, it would make it A whole lot easier, which is what you have.

I mean, what you're saying, too, like, the area I was from, I couldn't even find that information. So, yeah, it'd be nice if there's one central source to find that. That.

Yeah.

So I'm curious, You know, we talked about a little bit, but I want you to kind of elaborate on me. So you're. You're. You're. You're single, you're living this lifestyle. You're. You're working as a software engineer.And then, you know, how does that go from you doing all these things to, I want to run my own business now and build it around this? And, you know, like, how did you meet your husband? You know, was. Was he on board with this when you came in? This is something y' all did together.Like, how did that go?

So I will say, because it does seem like a big jump, but there's a lot of entrepreneurs in my family, and since I was a little kid, like, my dream was to have my own business, so it wasn't really, like, surprise, you know, thing for me. It's like I was waiting for the idea. So once it.It happened and I realized demand, I just, you know, jumped in and I actually met my husband around that time when I had the idea and I was starting it, so I was. Yeah, being with a founder is a lot, so you got to have a good partner who's going to put up with that.Fortunately, he's my cheerleader, and he was all about it from the beginning, so that wasn't too much of a challenge. And, of course, me switching to a stationary life worked out well, too, you know, because he's more stationary as well.I think me traveling, that wouldn't have worked. But, you know, now that I work so much, I don't really. I don't really miss the travel right now.You know, every day is an adventure, just running a company.

Yeah, well, and you did a lot of the traveling when you were young, so, I mean, a lot of times you get stuff out of your system and you want to change lifestyle up a little bit, but you also. The benefit of it, though, is you also understand the value of it, right? So it's a.It's an easy thing to sell to other people because you experienced it, you did it, you lived it, whether you're still living it now or not. I'm sure y' all still travel from time to time.You still have the rv, so I'm sure it's not something, you know, go out and do, did you have to, did you have to find investors or is this something you guys funded yourself?

So it started self funded and then I did get an investor. Well, a couple. I did a family and friends round and then our last round was with Jason Calacanis.Most people in the investing world know the name, so he invested the, the most.

Oh yeah, yeah, yes. From the all in podcast. I listen to them all the time.

That's awesome. Yeah.So he was our main big investor and so we're trying to raise our next round soon and then he's going to come and invest more with that next round, but we'll see how it goes. I mean, honestly, our growth rate before our Runway ends, we should be okay and not need it.I'm hoping to raise another round because then we can just grow faster. I can hire more people on.

So, so how did you come into contact with JCal as they call him?

I feel like I just got lucky, like, because it's hard, it's hard to like get in front of an investor. It's like it's a full time job just trying to talk to them. But I just put it out there.I was like, you know, to my network on LinkedIn and then this girls group I'm in and I'm like, hey, does anybody know of someone? And then it happened to be like a friend of a friend. They're like, oh, hey, he runs this founder university thing. I'm like, okay.So I reached out to it and I was like, hey. My friend said, I, I honestly, I didn't even know who he was then. Like, I don't know the investors or I, you know, I didn't know.

That's a big, listen, that's a big one. He's, he invests in a lot of stuff, like Uber, you know, I mean he's, he's got a lot, he's on the front end of a lot of things.

Yeah, I was so lucky. So I did, I applied to that university and I did it.And then after that the companies that stood out and that had a high growth rate, they consider for their term what they call it. There's another, their accelerator. It's something where they invest and then they help you with finding future investors.So it was at that point they're like, you know, you're doing great. And so he invested in us and. Yeah.

So did you, did you meet him in person and go have a conversation with him and pitch him?

Not. Oh, I didn't have to at that point because I did hit the university that he. He runs. Like, he saw our company, he saw our pitch and all that, so.But it was later that I did get to meet him. I went out to see him in California, and it was pretty cool experience.

Wow, that's great. I mean, that's. Look, anytime you have a guy like that on your side, I mean, because, you know, money's money, of course, and.And it matters, but, you know, those guys carry a lot of clout, especially in the investing world. So, like, you know, if you. If you go into your second round of investing and you can say, here's one of our seed guys from the beginning.I mean, that. That alone will get people to go, oh, well, if he's doing it, then I'm getting involved.Because, you know, he's had a lot of success putting money into places.

I don't think I throw the name around enough. Maybe that's the problem. Like, I'm reaching out to investors, but I'm not mentioning anything about Jason, so I probably should do that.

Yes, I would. I would strongly suggest that that become part of now. Obviously, you might want to clear it with him.I don't know, you know, how he feels about that kind of stuff, but that's true. I would definitely. I mean, look, clout is important, right?And whenever you can get someone to be excited about what you're doing and have a little bit of interest, and then you get the third party validation that a guy like him, that carries.I mean, they have one of the largest podcasts in the country, you know, the four of them together, and he's the moderator of it, so he talks more than anybody. So, I mean, he's the guy on that show.And they host these massive summits every year where they get people like Elon Musk and, you know, all these big investors to come in and talk at their, you know, presidents and congressmen. I mean, look, that's You. You have this, you know, guy in your. In your network that is like, yeah, like, come on, let's go. Come on, Kayla, you gotta.You gotta. Bigger, baby.

You're right, you're right. Yeah, yeah.

It's. Starting a business is hard. It's. It's difficult and, you know, and it's not something that everybody has the stomach for.But going through the process yourself, if you were. If someone called you and said, all right, Kaylee, I want to start my own business, whatever it is, you know, what are.What are some things that you've experienced that you've gone through that you're like, okay, well, make sure you do this or make sure you don't do that or whatever the case may be. What, what have you learned in, in this process?

A lot. And it's kind of funny because what we just spoke of kind of leads to that. My main thing is stop trying to, don't try and go it alone.I'm somebody that, like, when I want to solve a problem, I, I try and tackle it all by myself. Like. Yeah, and that's just the way I am.But I'm realizing you want a successful company or you want something to take off, don't, don't try to do it yourself. You want to surround yourself with people who know more than you. Definitely that.Now I have this one employee who's managing the other ones, and he's just amazing. So I'm thankful that I actually went out and looked for that help and found him.So that'd be the main thing, you know, don't just sit in a box and work away. You know, get out there. Networking is a huge deal. I mean, honestly, in any field, any profession, anything. Networking.So I recommend that as a founder, too.

Yeah.

Is there any, any, any, any don'ts. Any big lessons that you've learned where you're like, you don't, definitely, don't do this.

Don't get an idea in your head and just stick to it in a stubborn way. So, like, some people, like, and I did it first too, with my idea, I just kind of stuck to it.And I was seeing some, like, other things that would say, like, point to the contrary, that maybe I should consider. And I've learned you have to be able to adapt. And the hardest part is knowing when to adapt and when to kind of stick to your guns.So as you're growing, like we were saying before, you're going to hear from your customers what they want, you're going to get a lot of feedback and, and I've learned to just pretty much write it all down. And then when I see things in repetition, that's when I start really considering, like, how can I fix this, how can I improve this?Because obviously, you know, it's, it's not just this one person thinking. It's. It's something that, you know, the whole, the whole market is going to be wanting.

Yeah, I, I hear a lot from entrepreneurs and I, and I go through this myself some or probably more than I care to admit to myself. But we have, there's always ideas, right? You have ideas, things that you want to do. I want to do this. And I want to do that and I want to do this.And I found talking to people and doing this that the people that can get hyper focused on the one idea, whether it is great or maybe it pans out or doesn't or whatever the case may be, it's kind of like when you're trying to do so many things at once, you never really do any of them.But when you focus on one thing, even if you don't, even if that idea doesn't pan out, the lessons that you learn in building to that point is, is really the value. It's almost like its own education.And then your next idea that you focus on, you know, might have the success or maybe the third or fourth one or whatever, but you're always learning through that process. Did you kind of experience that too?

Absolutely. That's a really good point. Yeah. So like before when I was kind of staying focused on my idea, but like I said, knowing when to swivel.So kind of what to what you're saying is you still have to keep that broader vision and just stick to it. It is hard to, you know, always day in and day out.But I do agree with that, that even the things where, I mean, little things, even like software things, you know, I've worked on, where I'm trying so hard to get it to work, get to work. And then you look back a week later, you know, and you're still kind of of stuck.You feel like you lost that week, but you didn't like the, what you learned through that through the next thing. When I like try and solve the next problem like you do, you learn a lot from each one.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's definitely something where, you know, you think people think of, of failure as, you know, I didn't, I didn't achieve my goal or I didn't succeed in what I'm doing. And often those failures is what leads to the successes because yeah, you have to go through that journey. You have to experience that thing.And there's so much that you learn through that. You people forget the value of the lessons that you learned or the things you learned to do or not to do.And you know, just, just going through that process in and of itself is a success. You just don't realize it in the moment because you didn't achieve whatever the thing was that you were trying to achieve.And, and that can be, you know, frustrating for folks. And that's where a lot of people kind of give up, up, you know, and say, okay, I just can't do this and I move on.And it's, you know, whenever you hear of success stories of people that, you know, just went after it and did it, you know, it's inspiring because you're like, okay, I, I can do this, you know, I think I can pull this off.And, and, and I think it's, you know, it's great, especially you know, as a female owned business where, you know, this is something that was your passion and your baby that you, that you built and you're going through the process just like anybody else. You know, you haven't completed it. It's not like you've hit the end journey.You still have go, but, but, but staying positive and going through it and learning those things as you go through that in and of itself is incredibly rewarding. Right?

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Like that is part of the success.Like you mentioned, you hear those stories of the successful people, but you don't know all the struggles they went to through as well that made them successful. Yeah, it's like, like you're saying it's not the success itself. It's.

Yeah, yeah, you get the end journey, the result. You're like, oh, they did it. And it's like, yeah, but you didn't see the 15 years that they fell in their face 100 times.

They were learning. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Where are you guys at in your growth model as far as, you know, what, what are your next steps that you're really trying to add to kind of build this and, and so you're ready for that next round of investing.

So right now we are focusing primarily on getting more hosts. So before, you know, the renters, you can see that. It's, you can see in the numbers, you know, the, the revenue going up every month.Right now we're putting a pause on trying hard to get more renters.They're still coming in, but we're focusing all of our marketing efforts on just getting the hosts because then we're hoping, you know, we can go to investors and say, you know, we did made this much with this amount. Well, look how many hosts we have now. And then hopefully we start swiveling our marketing back to the renters.We can really just show that explosive growth.

Gotcha.

So you're actually seeing more renters than you are hosts right now?

Yeah, yeah, people, I guess in marketplaces most time it's hard to get the demand side us, it's the opposite supply side. I wouldn't say it's hard. It's.Once we talk to people, they're on board, you know, and they want to host, but it's hard to get in front of them and tell them about this. You know, no one knows about it yet, but as far as demand side renters, no, no problem. Like, really, we get place. Yeah.Except for those two properties. I told you, we get everybody booked.

That's crazy. Well, I mean, that's a. I, I would think, and I don't know, you're the expert here. That's just really a knowledge thing.That's just an understanding of what's there. Because I got to imagine there's hundreds of thousands of people that own land that is just sitting there, not being used, period.And they just don't realize that this is an option for them. Right. So really it's just about getting the word out, right?

Yep.And so that's what I'm focusing on right now is I'm trying my best just to get the message out on every platform I can and just tell people because, yeah, once I'm in front of the right people who have landed, you know, they're on board. Yeah. It's just trying to educate, educate the landowners.

Yeah.

What are you doing? Like, where are you guys focusing your efforts on? Trying to find these, these people.

Like what avenues we're using.

Yeah, yeah, like for your. To try to find the, the landowners to see, get them on board and make them aware of what's happening.

So we tried some targeted ways, but it was just too small scale. That's why I'm just trying to learn a lot more about social media and SEO and just bigger ways to broadcast.Fortunately, I have a really good SEO guy now, so he's kind of taking over that. And we're seeing a lot of growth there. And then trying to start my YouTube channel, you know, things like this, I'm like, there's other. Yeah.So it's things like this that I figure it'll take a little longer, you know, to get the, the traction there so that people actually see it. But I think that is our long term plan for really getting more hosts.

So if, if I were to say to you, okay, you're in a room full of owners that have land, what is your pitch to them?

I'd say you're sitting on money. I'd say that you don't have to worry about liability. We include host coverage. So you are secure.We vet, we verify the renters, we vet them beforehand and you can set what you're okay with.You know, if you don't want people there with Peter sets, you can mark that and so it's any stay length and we will be there and help you through everything. I tell them it only takes about 10 minutes to get it listed and just see if you get bites.You don't necessarily have to approve and have them on your land, but at least you can see the value that you have.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I think that's awesome. I, I think this is a, you know, when, when I, when you first reach out to me about this, I was like, what is this?And I kind of looked it up and, and I had no idea that. I had no idea that this thing exists. I'm, I'm, I've been in real estate for 15 years. My wife is a realtor.You know, like, we didn't, we didn't really consider, you know, these type of things that were out there that, you know, this is just a whole other, other avenue that you can make money off real estate.And, and I don't think there's a lot of people that it's not that they don't know because once you, it's like once I saw it, I was like, oh yeah, that makes complete sense.

Right, right.

But, but not just not it being in the, in the zeitgeist of my reality, it just wasn't there. It wasn't something that we had, had thought about or considered.And I think that it, it's become a thing where for you that, you know, it's really right this point, it's just kind of getting the word out there and getting in front of people to let them know because it's a fabulous idea. There's really not a whole lot of, of competition as far as other, you know, other services that do this. There's a few, but, but not very many.And then it just becomes a matter of, okay, who's going to do the best job of it and especially you living that lifestyle and being it and understanding and having, you know, your story to tell. I think, I think that's, you know, that's good, A, a big, big piece of it.So I really appreciate you, you know, hopping on with me and telling me about this. This is, I think this is a great opportunity.Any agents that are listening to this, you know, when you're talking to your buyers and your sellers, this is just another, you know, tool in your tool belt to say, hey, look, if you have this kind of situation, there are ways to make income and revenue off of this. And if you own land, you know, it's definitely something you need to Obviously consider and reach out and check it out.So, so, so just let everybody know the website name, how to find you guys and then and we'll wrap this thing up.

Yep. So it is Hook Hub. That's H o o k h u b.co can also go to.com but we go by hookhub co. That's where you can find us.And otherwise at this point, it's exciting. You can just search Hook Hub on Google and we pop up now there.

You are on top. That SEO is working, baby.

Yeah.

Well, Kaylee, thank you so much for your time. Greatly appreciate it.And we'll, we're gonna definitely check in and see how things are going down the road a little bit with you because I think that this is going to be a massive thing for you and I'm, I'm, I'm rooting for you big time because I think this is great. I think you're a great person. It's going to be an awesome opportunity for anybody that gets involved. So.All right, guys, well, thank you for sticking around with us. I'll be back next week. We'll talk a little bit more lending next week.We'll get into some loan stuff and then I've got another market update coming out because is things are just chaos. Rates are coming down, it's good, but housing market is still slowing down. So we'll see how this thing continues.But if you got land, you're in good shape. All right guys, everybody have a great weekend and we will see you next time. Thank you, Kaylee.

Thank you.